Electronic signatures

DocuSign tends to be very expensive.  Many users in the TaxCycle forum who processed 800 or more returns in 2020 received a letter from DocuSign with an additional invoice that they went above the quota.  The state that DocuSign costs approx. $8.00 per signature, and that for this tax season, DocuSign might suspend a users privileges if it exceeds the number of signing packages they signed up for.  TaxCycle is creating their own document signing tool called TaxFolder, charging $500 for unlimited packages, but will also continue to support DocuSign.  I agree, that Profile is behind in not supporting integration with an e-signature solution.

Last year, most of my clients signed in person, so I didn't worry about using e-signatures.  Some clients also printed the T183, signed them, re-scanned them, and sent them back to me. I also had a few clients that used the free signing tool embedded in Adobe Acrobat to sign their documents.

For this tax season, I have purchased a license for Adobe Acrobat Pro DC, which comes with Adobe Sign.  It works reasonably well, however, it doesn't support creating field templates (only document templates - the more expensive Business and Enterprise additions allow for field templates).  This means that you can't create a template for the T183 (a form that changes for each client).  You have to manually insert the signature field (and perhaps the date field if you chose to leave it blank when you print the T183's) for each T183 you send for a signature (or Authorize Rep form). 

The other thing I've noticed is that although Adobe Sign sends an email to the client with a secure link to access the files on Adobe's secure network, once the document is signed, it sends a copy of the signed document to the client as an attachment, thus giving access to the file by a someone hacking into the client's email account. Again, only the more expensive Business & Enterprise versions allow the user to disable the attachments.  Plus, a hacker can also click on the Adobe email link and access the file from Adobe's secure site.  Thus, when setting up the signature fields in Adobe Sign, it is important to follow the menus and apply a password to the file, thus adding a degree of security to prevent unauthorized access.

I hope this is helpful.

For the last 5 years I'm doing over 1,200 returns per tax season. I'm alone and sending emails and than explaining to the clients how to do it is ... painful and time consuming.
Sending emails with instructions how to sign is again time consuming and not even 50% effective.
Hub is not the best client management tool either
Intuit is running behind competition by many miles.
  

I don't bother telling clients about the electronic signature, it would be a waste of my and their time. I just ask them to print the form, sign, scan and email back to me in the pdf format.

I have a free version of Acrobat Adobe Reader DC. I've created my own digital signature that I can affix to documents-I've done it a couple of times and it works perfectly. 

New for 2020, CRA is also asking that the time of signature also be recorded on the Date Line on the T183 for all signatures.  The downloadable PDF copy from CRA's website also requests the time of signing.  So just something to be aware of for this tax season. 

Thanks for pointing this out (the time of signature on T183), I did not notice it before.

When I print T183, the current date is printed as well. But the "HH MM SS" box shows "00:00:00". So, how do I get Profile to either print the current time or leave this "time of signing" box blank so that the client can enter the time?

Sadly, I can't help you out with this one.  After being with Profile since about 2002 (while it was owned by Greenpoint), I've taken the plunge this year to change software providers to try something different and enter into a new learning curve.  Perhaps someone like Duncan (who works for Profile) can chime in to answer this question.

Hope you have a great tax season.

Thanks, Kozakworld! So, I'm looking forward to hearing from Duncan.

I started with Profile in 2001. It was a front runner. And one of the only 3 software for Quebec. Sadly they lost steam and felt behind in helping their clients - us, the tax preps.
In a conversation with CRA, I have been assured that hour of signing will be a problem for non complaining software companies. So, helpfully, we will get an update before 23 feb.
This will be a hard season ...  

Hi, thank you for using Intuit ProFile Community

CRA now requires the time on the T183 when there is an electronic signature. There is a new question regarding electronic signatures on the Info tab in the 2020 T1 which is linked to the same question at the top of the T183. When there is an electronic signature, CRA also requires a time on the T183 as indicated by warnings when the electronic signature question is answered yes.

The time is manually entered by the preparer and will not be an override in ProFile version 2020.3.0, targeted for release before the CRA T1 e-file window opens

Hope this helps

I do the same as you.  I could not easily explain to clients how to add electronic signature.  So in this time of covid restrictions the scan to email, sign and return seems like an effective use of time and technology.  Does anyone know for certain if a scanned document with signature is acceptable to CRA?

I found this under the heading How to obtain electronic signatures on a PDF. I t looks like it is valid to do the scan/print/sign/scan and return method. I suppose the issue is that it's not password-protected.:

Add a signature to T183

There are two methods your client can use to attach their signature to the T183 form:

• Have your client print the T183, review it, sign Part G, scan it or take a picture, and return the signed form electronically (i.e., email)

or:

• use Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, a free software that allows your client to electronically sign the T183 without having to print it.

I noticed the requirement for time and date of Esignature. Apparently nobody "working" for the government understands how time intensive this is.

I do not have the time to re-open each return and put in a time of signature. I work for myself with no staff and do 1800 returns--no way in hell I have time for that, so all will be marked not esignature and if they ask they will get what they get

From my understanding an E-Signature is form a access controlled secure site that allows a computer generated signature or a typed signature that is time stamped from the client and confirmed such sites as Adobe e-sign or Dochub or Docusign etc. 

A Document that is emailed printed hand signed then scanned and sent back is considered a Electronic signature but the document can only be accepted as long as the email address of the client that you sent the form to is the same email used to send the singed scanned document back.

As for the Time on a emailed T183 I believe this would be when you received the replied email or if using a E-Signature company site they usually have an audit trail that tells when the time of signature.  

Hi, thank you for using Intuit ProFile Community

We have an article for e-signature that was in use last tax season here. This year does have the requirement for date and time to be entered on the T183 for 2020 by the taxpayer when signing.

Hope this helps

"A Document that is emailed printed hand signed then scanned and sent back is considered a Electronic signature" ...

I have confirmed with the e-file help desk that this type of signature is NOT considered an electronic signature since it is an actual signature on the document.  CRA accepts that the client sends us these pdf scans of these documents for the short term to allow us to e-file their returns, however they also recommend that the client mail us the original printed and signed copy for our file.

CRA e-file help desk also confirmed that the HH:MM:SS  is not required on paper signed forms, or on the AuthRep form which doesn't request it.

Kozakworld: Thanks for your post.

If this is the case, I can't imagine how most of my clients would be able to sign the T183 using Adobe Acrobat Reader DC or other program. Sometimes it's quite difficult for them to print the T183, sign, re-scan it and return it to me via e-mail.

That was my method of choice last year, "print, sign, scan, send", but as you say, it is cumbersome. 

This year, I invested in Adobe "Acrobat Pro DC" which comes with Adobe Sign.  For monthly cost of $19.99 + $1.00 GST (plus I self assess an additional $1.40 PST which I remit yearly to the MB gov't since it wasn't charged by Adobe), thus I'm paying $22.39 monthly or $268.68 yearly.  I'm finding it has created real value to my practice and is worth the cost.  

My clients find it very easy to sign their documents using Adobe Sign (for documents containing confidential info like client SIN, I password protect the document since the signed document is sent as an attachment to both the client and me after signing.  Document control information is attached, so I always print my T183's or AuthReps in duplex with the authentication information on the back side.  

The Adobe DC Pro also allows me to combine PDF files, reorganize pages, or delete  pages in a pdf document, search pdf files by recognizing text, convert pdf's to Word, Excel, and other formats if required, and a host of other functions.  I used to use other free software to do these functions which were slightly more time consuming.  I'm experiencing the benefits of using this software and finding it worth the price which I use as a business expense.

I'm still having to use the Print, sign, scan method for documents not yet approved by CRA for e-signature.

Hi, thank you for using Intuit ProFile Community

FinancierCanada is correct. For 2020 T183 there are two options for the T183:

1) Answer e-signature No: ProFile populates the date, this is similar to the method in the past when clients sign in the office

2) Answer e-signature Yes: The taxpayer is required to sign and enter the date and time of signing on the signed T183. The preparer then enters the date and time from the signed copy T183 into ProFile.

Hope this helps

I noticed the new email this morning from Profile announcing the integration of Docusign:

"We’re excited to introduce our latest feature update to ProFile. With eSignature, powered by DocuSign®, you can now manage client signatures digitally, on any form or document, and track their progress remotely, with real-time status updates right from your software dashboard.
How eSignature works
eSignature is available on any forms across T1, T2, T3, and FX modules"

I haven't seen any new updates from CRA that they are accepting e-signatures on any other forms other than the T183's, the AuthReps, and the T2200(s)  ?   If not, then we need to use caution in using Docusign to acquire signatures on any other forms.

Hi, thank you for using Intuit ProFile Community

DocuSign integration is available in ProFile 2020.3.5 now available. We have a Community article with details available here.

Hope this helps

But currently  this function is not working properly. I just signed up with Docusign a week ago. Seems they have annual limit on the documents you can sent. This could be very costly for small firm. Maybe I should try Taxcycle next year.