How to enter payments taken out of the second company to the correct company where AmEx card is connected?

Is Company A and Company B using the same checking account? If they are you probably you mihgt suggest to the business owner consider that they link accounts. Once the accounts are linked up the business owner could login with the same username and pw to see both A and B account files and make electronic transfers rather than handwritten checks. They could also make transfers easily from their smart phone app on the go as well. 

Thanks for the response Steve. Company A and Company B have separate checking accounts. 

I would highly recommend that they have two separate credit cards for the separate companies.  Just like it is imperative to keep business separate from personal expenses, company expenses should also be separated. Co-mingling funds between companies is almost sure to get messy and have to say that Company A should not be spending money they don't have. This is what I would tell my client anyway.

@ Richard

If the companies are both sole proprietorships or partnerships, the withdrawal of funds from company B would be an equity draw.  In company A show the influx as equity investment deposited to a cash account, and pay the bill from the cash account.

Sounds like a payment was already made directly from the other company's checking account vs. doing a transfer of cash between companies.  Again, I would suggest separate credit cards for each company here.

Wouldn't an "Equity Draw", as you call it, imply payment to Owner/Shareholder vs. another business entity?

So then does one company have partial ownership of the other company based on their "investment" in it?

I concur with @Teri with the easiest way to track all of this is keep separate credit cards for Company A and B so it can all get tracked in the right place.

Questions on your suggestion that I copied below:

If I were to do it I would just write simple journal entries each month.
  Company A: Debit AE account; Credit current liability account.
  Company B: Debit current assets account; Credit bank account.

Co A:  Isn't AE account already a current liability account?  So what are you suggesting for the second one?

Co B:  We know Bank account is a current asset account.  So what are you suggesting for the second same?

Sometimes you jut have to explain to the biz owner what is required and they should respect your advice.

I have a very similar situation.  The owner has 2 companies and each has it's own separate company QBs account.  Company A is the Amex cardholder.  The owner used the Amex to pay for some Company B expenses.  For simplicity, the credit card bill total was $1000.  Company A total charges was $700 and Company B total charges was $300.  Instead of Company B reimburse Company A, Company B made a direct payment of $300 to Amex.  And Company A paid its $700 to Amex.  How do I record the entries properly in each company's QBs account?  

-  Do I enter all of the credit card charges including Company B's incurred expenses in Company A account?  If so, what is the appropriate account type/name for entering Company B expenses?

-  How do I make sure of clearing the balance sheet for each company account?

Thank you in advance for your help.

@ Teri

Wouldn't an "Equity Draw", as you call it, imply payment to Owner/Shareholder vs. another business entity?

So then does one company have partial ownership of the other company based on their "investment" in it?

in the OP, the owner of both companies is the same person. He, the owner, takes money from one company to pay the expense of another. The act of taking money is a draw, and putting it in another company he owns is an investment.

No there is no company ownership of one with another

Thanks for confirming.  I agree as long as he takes the draw from one company and puts into the other one.

Yes, very messy way to do accounting in my opinion. I still suggest separate credit cards going forward so that you are not trying to track accounting for three different users (two companies and an individual on one CC). 

Thanks for confirming.  I agree as long as he takes the draw from one company and puts into the other one.

Yes, very messy way to do accounting in my opinion. I still suggest separate credit cards going forward so that you are not trying to track accounting for three different users, two companies and an individual on one CC. 

I don't see where anyone addressed the Most Important consideration = Commingling.

"the source of the AmEx payment will depend on the month, based on which account has the funds to pay so this scenario could happen again."

I recommend you Stop Paying directly from a company that is not the Responsible party for that Debt.

"Since this involves extra work for her she may not want to do this,"

Explain that this opens Both Businesses to scrutiny by the IRS and by any law firm, as well, that wants to "look at the books" and/or Sue. If this person does not want to Respect any separation between these two business, or between Self and Business, no one else respects that, either.

"soas an alterantive I'm looking to see if there is an easy way to make the entries in both company files."

Commingling = you didn't segregate the entries, even if you Tracked them correctly, because paying Amex directly from the entity who is not the Responsible party = Commingled. You want to Move Funds between the entities in anticipation of that shortfall, then let each make their Own Payments.

And nothing here is a Debit=Credit or JE. In QB, you have Tools = an Interface. If this is Desktop, that is Banking menu > Enter Credit Card Charge. For QBO, it is an expense from the Credit card. For Reductions, that is Credit Card Credit, or Return. Or, from Checking, the Credit Card account is the "expense" entry.

If you insist that Company A pays Company's B's debt directly as Loaned to them, that still is Credit Card Credit for B, putting Liabilty as the "expense" reason. And Company A's check "expense" is Other Asset.

No JE should be used.

Yes, co-mingling (between two different companies) is exactly what they are doing and should not be and that is what needs to be explained to the owner in my opinion in order to stop these bad accounting habits.

As mentioned, I recommended they should have two separate credit cards, but if for some reason the owner refuses to do, next best thing is to not have one company make payment on other company AMEX.

Transferring money between companies should not be handled this way to begin with, it should be through proper accounting taking money from one company as draw and investing in the other company or a loan.

Yes, no JE's here, but I believe in explaining what they should expect to see as results on their books even if using the QB functions, otherwise how will they ever know what is right or wrong. 

QBTeachment, I think you and I do things differently, I teach clients how to do their own accounting vs. doing it for them, so they can be independent and only need to contact me fo help on new items.

Teri and QBTeachmt, thank you both for your help.  My situation happened inadvertently and won't happen again!   As a follow-up question, Teri pointed out the logic to follow/entries, however can you provide the actual steps to properly record the entries?  I'm using QB Desktop.  As QBTeachmt mentioned, if using Desktop, then go to Banking menu > enter Credit Card Charge...this would be my first step in Company A.  Then how do I proceed?

Thanks to all who responded to my question!

Another question was asked by @ndfbroadwick in this thread so I'm confused if any of the responses that came in after that question apply to my scenario. 

@Teri @qbteachmt  @Rustler @vpcontroller --- client now understands how their actions have caused bookeeping problems. She will not get a 2nd AmEx card for Company B but has agreed to write a check from Company B to Company A if she doesn't have the funds in Company A's bank account to pay the AmEx card. There's at most 2 payments paid from the wrong company in 2017 that I need to account for in the 2 Company Files. Can someone tell me the easiest way to make the entries so I can put this headache behind me and move on? THANKS!!!  :smileyhappy:

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QB Teachment:  You wrote the following recommendation which I cannot even follow so not sure how you expect a non-accountant to follow. Perhaps you can clarify for them since you choose to argue everything I post here... 

qbteachmt wrote: 

In QB, you have Tools = an Interface. If this is Desktop, that is Banking menu > Enter Credit Card Charge. For QBO, it is an expense from the Credit card. For Reductions, that is Credit Card Credit, or Return. Or, from Checking, the Credit Card account is the "expense" entry.

 

If you insist that Company A pays Company's B's debt directly as Loaned to them, that still is Credit Card Credit for B, putting Liabilty as the "expense" reason. And Company A's check "expense" is Other Asset.

 

I don't believe this person is "insisting" on doing anything. The transaction has already occurred so he just needs to know best way to book the one-time transactions into QB.  I think he understands that this is not good practice and will be on him and owner to correct practice going forward, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi All, the conversation thread getting a bit long and starting to get confusing, but really appreciate everyone's help!  Richardgreen initiated the post and I, ndfbroadwick, chimed in with a similar problem.  In hopes of reaching a final solution to both our problems, outlined below is a recap of our situations.  I believe we both understand that comingling accounts is bad bookkeeping practice, the  accounting concepts/logic provided are all very helpful, and the erroneous steps previously taken had already occurred so we just need to know best way to properly record the one-time transactions into QB step-by-step.  Thank you so much!

1. Richardgreen's scenario (using QuickBooks Pro 2011):

I have a client (Company A) who has an American Express (AmEx) credit card setup in their QB company file.  Since the beginning, when the Company A company file was created,  the owner has been making payments on the AmEx card using their Company A business checking account.  The owner of Company A recently opened another business (Company B).  In June the owner made the AmEx payment from the Company B bank account instead of from the Company A bank account because she didn’t have enough money in the Company A bank account.  Going forward the owner said the source of the AmEx payment will depend on the month, based on which account has the funds to pay so this scenario could happen again.  Since the AmEx account is set-up in Company A's QB company file how would I make the entries in Company A and B’s QB files when the payment comes from a company file that doesn’t have the AmEx card account in it?  Company A and Company B have separate checking accounts.   The client uses QuickBooks Pro 2011.  NOTE: I know one solution is to suggest when the owner knows she wants to pay the AmEx card with Company B's checking account she  writes a check to Company A for the payment amount, deposits the check in Company A and makes the payment from Comany A's checking account. Since this involves extra work for her she may not want to do this, soas an alterantive I'm looking to see if there is an easy way to make the entries in both company files.

Thanks to all who responded to my question!

Another question was asked by @ndfbroadwick in this thread so I'm confused if any of the responses that came in after that question apply to my scenario. 

@Teri @qbteachmt  @Rustler @vpcontroller --- client now understands how their actions have caused bookeeping problems. She will not get a 2nd AmEx card for Company B but has agreed to write a check from Company B to Company A if she doesn't have the funds in Company A's bank account to pay the AmEx card. There's at most 2 payments paid from the wrong company in 2017 that I need to account for in the 2 Company Files. Can someone tell me the easiest way to make the entries so I can put this headache behind me and move on? THANKS!!!  

 2.  ndfbroadwick's scenario (using Quickbooks Pro Desktop 2016):  

I have a very similar situation.  The owner has 2 companies and each has it's own separate company QBs account.  Company A is the Amex cardholder.  The owner used the Amex to pay for some Company B expenses.  For simplicity, the credit card bill total was $1000.  Company A total charges was $700 and Company B total charges was $300.  Instead of Company B reimburse Company A, Company B made a direct payment of $300 to Amex.  And Company A paid its $700 to Amex.  How do I record the entries properly in each company's QBs account?  

-  Do I enter all of the credit card charges including Company B's incurred expenses in Company A account?  If so, what is the appropriate account type/name for entering Company B expenses?

-  How do I make sure of clearing the balance sheet for each company account?  My situation happened inadvertently and won't happen again!   Teri pointed out the logic to follow/entries, however can you provide the actual steps to properly record the entries?  I'm using QB Desktop.  As QBTeachmt mentioned, if using Desktop, then go to Banking menu > enter Credit Card Charge...this would be my first step in Company A.  Then how do I proceed?

Hi - Sorry for the long thread and that you had to ask again to get answer.  I'm new to this site myself but of course not new to accounting or QB, but I know the other guy is a regular here and any other time he is all over my post immediately with his critique, except of course when I ask him to reply, then we get nothing.

So maybe I need to post a response and then he will chime in to correct me here as that is common too. The correction he suggested sounded more like a long-term solution if you were going to continue this practice since he referred to balance sheet accounts, but my impression is that this is one-time fix to do. 

There are always multiple ways to do things in accounting and we all have reasons for our preferences based on individual experience of course, so sorry you got variety of answers since I know that is worse than none and I know even where we say the same thing it might sound different if worded differently.

QBT is definitely the one who works with QB more since I focus on Govt contractors/any system, but they must also follow all of the same general accounting practices and just have addiional requirements added on top of that making things more complex and in some cases, changing priorities for making decisions.

I know we have worn you out with the advice about "what you should do and should not have done here" so hate to add more generic info but in order to give correct advice you need to know as much as possible. Since we all know this was done incorrectly, the question is what is least worst way to handle this situation.

I just have a couple questions here in red to confirm what I can't see on your books or don't already know.

One of you mentioned both being LLC's, is that true for all four of the companies we are discussing here? 

I ask because accounting differs in some function areas between C Corp, S Corp and LLC Sole Proprietor, for example with regard to equity where there are Dividends, Distributions and Draws for the three above.

The first thing I would ask is what has already been done, so we can minimize what needs to be changed.

I assume the Company B already sent check to AMEX, if not, we would want to stop that part beforehand since one company should not be paying another's bills, you can see how that just even looks/sounds bad.

However, as the owner of the business, of course, you/they can add/take money to/from your companies.  If you were planning to continue to do this, we would want to provide you with a different solution long-term vs. a correction to a one-time oops.  Have you made any entries yet on either company's books?

As mentioned earlier, the specific expenses belong to the company who incurred them and the expenses should be coded accordingly on that company's books.  Are any of the expenses shared between them?

Just asking to confirm there is clear split of whose is whose to make sure we do not need to consider that.  

Do you already have AMEX card setup on Company A and already know how to do normal CC entries?

Can you tell me how you do those entries now -- Do you download CC statements or input transactions?

In my industry, expense reports or P.O.'s are required, may I assume these are not items we must consider?

Just checking for where to start detailed explanation.  

Start with the Facts:

This was done affecting a credit card. You will use Credit Card Charge, then, to see an increase to the card's running balance. It is Not An Expense entry for the entity paying on behalf of another. It is a Loan to the other entity. Use an Other Asset account, not an Expense account. You don't want this on your P&L; it isn't Yours. Your money and credit are your Assets or Resources made available to you. You let someone else "use your asset" = Other Asset. Other asset = you will be Repaid.

The entity that really should have paid, is incurring whatever this Really is for them. Expense, or perhaps a new computer was purchased = new fixed asset. This Expenditure on their behalf is still Theirs. You enter it as such, but need to show it was "paid by another, on my behalf, and Now I have a Liability to repay them."

That means, for instance, use a Bill for the real vendor name and list what was bought. Use a Vendor Credit to list the Liability account. Apply them to each other using Pay Bills.

Or, use a Petty Cash or Clearing Bank account. "Buy" what you owe for, from this account. "Deposit" funds to this account as Liability, to show you Borrowed what got spent. The net = 0.

But you must ask your own CPA. This type of Commingling, whether inadvertent or intentional, must be handled properly per the Tax rules. Example: Both entities are a Sole Proprietorship = you cannot be in debt to yourself. That means both events are Equity events. Or, one entity has Other partners or members to take into consideration.

If both people who asked, understand your response and are able to make the correct entries, great!

I agree the type of entity can impact how this should be handled, which is why I asked that question.

Please let me play "Dummy" for myself and anyone else who is still not clear on what you are saying.

If you could possibly explain in terms of Company A and B per examples, I think that would help out. 

In your example, you refer to purchase of computer, say it was one of the items purchased on AMEX.

If Company A has computer paid for on their AMEX and they paid AMEX bill, all is clear for everyone.

If Company B has computer paid for by Company A's AMEX but Company B pays A or pays AMEX for it, then it is their computer.  This computer should be detailed on the books of Company B who bought it.

Do you agree or disagree?

The "financing" of this purchase (HOW it was paid) is a separate and second matter to be addressed.

Obviously, AMEX is on Company A's books and they usually pay the full amount due to AMEX, right?

However, in this case, the computer was purchased for Company B so they must pay that money back.  Here we all agree, that payment should have been made to Company A, like they had loaned money.  

But that is not what happened, Company B made payment directly to AMEX on Company A's account.   This is where it gets messy, but it is a done deal and you cannot change the cash entries on Bank or CC.

If this is already done, there is no outstanding loan to/from either company and no change to equity as 

the cash has already been loaned and paid back, so no need to carry on balance sheet from my view.

The question was asked, what to do when the Owner of the computer isn’t the Entity that paid for it by credit card? One party incurred an Expenditure on behalf of another = Other Asset. Other Asset = you Loaned to another.

“This computer should be detailed on the books of Company B who bought it.”

Whoever Owns the computer puts it on their bookkeeping. How it is paid for is Separate. The owning entity either Bought it, or had someone else Buy it for them = went into Debt. Company A Other Asset = Company B Liability balance.

"Obviously, AMEX is on Company A's books and they usually pay the full amount due to AMEX, right?"

Paying AMEX in full or not, isn't part of this discussion. Company A also has AMEX liability, if their AMEX card was used. Whether or not they pay their AMEX, or how they pay, or if Company B pays (the Commingling referred to in this topic, earlier), is handled specifically and approprietly to how that happens.

Example:

Company B pays AMEX directly. Company B enters this as From Checking, against their Liaiblity = Owed to Company A. Meanwhile, Company B now enters that their credit card account balance has been Reduced by the party to whom they "loaned the use of our AMEX card" = they use Banking menu > Credit Card CREDIT, and as the expense, they list their Other Asset Account. Now their Asset account shows it got repaid, just Not To Them. The payment was sent to AMEX directly (Bad idea; avoid commingling by an "arm's Length" transaction = never pay someone else's Credit Card provider directly).

"But that is not what happened, Company B made payment directly to AMEX on Company A's account.   This is where it gets messy, but it is a done deal and you cannot change the cash entries on Bank or CC."

It is handled properly; it is just a Bad method and they stated it won't be done like this, in the future.

"If this is already done, there is no outstanding loan to/from either company and no change to equity as 

the cash has already been loaned and paid back, so no need to carry on balance sheet from my view."

If it is "already done" then all of these Entries were made.