@qbteachmtNo, it is you who are wrong. BTW, I have a PhD in computer science so I may just know what I am talking about.

"This is a Relational Database and there are associated utility files that are Live Updated while you work. It isn't just the .qbw that is Updated. Unlike Word and Excel, while you work on a data file, it is not Loaded into local memory."

That makes zero difference. Most software "live updates" files on disk"while you work". Every program that has preferences that you can alter, for example. It doesn't matter whether the software has an embedded relational database. What is required is reliable file-locking semantics, which One Drive has if only a single user is accessing the files.

"The file is Managed; you didn't even tell us if you want Concurrent Sharing or just two different computers accessing the files individually. We can help you learn, but you would need to ask."

Neither. I use QB in single-user mode. There is only ever one instance of QB accessing the files at a times. Which is why having my QB file on One Drive works just fine. What doesn't work is the backup process. I am unable to open any of my previously backed up versions and it does not matter whether I back up to the cloud (One Drive), local disk, removable disk, etc.

It is clear that Intuit have built in some kind of protection that prevents this scenario. The only motivation is  that they offer their own (paid) hosted service that they want to force their customer to use.

"Let's try this, again: You can work on a DropBox file that is On Your Computer and sync'd to the Cloud. You cannot work on the Dropbox copy and expect someone else to also use it. "

I don't expect someone else to use it. As above, I am only using QB in single-user mode. It works just fine, *until* it comes time to restore a backup which does not work.

""Unfortunately, intuit do not tell you that they cripple their software so you can't run on a cloud drive."

Yes, this is in the support articles"

Ah, so we're supposed to read thousands of support articles before using the product? If so, Intuit really should tell you that before you buy: "Warning, please spend a month reading all the QB support articles otherwise you risk being unable to open your backups." Might lose a few customers that way though.

"You can do whatever you want to, but if you want to Learn how to use tools, you pay attention to what people are telling you. "

I heard what you were telling me. Something about QB having a magical relational database that means it can't possibly live on a cloud drive (wrong). Something about other programs being intrinsically different because they load all their data into memory and never have to access disk (wrong).

You are correct that QB apparently does not work on a cloud drive, but not for the reasons you give. It doesn't work because Intuit deliberately prevent it from working.

Hi FritzF, I already tried this before posting but it does not work. I get an error (-6000 -83 from memory) when saving the backup to the desktop. No method I can find works.

If it is relevant, I am running Quickbooks in a Windows 10 virtual machine.

Thanks for getting back to me, @IH8QuikB.

I appreciate the steps you've done to get this working. I'm here to help fix the error you're having when restoring your QuickBooks backup company file.

Below are the possible reasons why you're getting this error:

• Insufficient permissions for your network server, Windows user, or QBDataServiceUserXX.
• A firewall or security software blocking QuickBooks files.
• Damage in company file or the shared folder.
• More than one computer trying to host the company file.
• How the file is accessed (Mapped Network Drive or UNC Path).
• The file extension may be .qbm or .qbw.adr.

To isolate this, you can check out this helpful article with the detailed steps on how to fix this issue: Error -6000, -83: An error occurred. Please note that the solution may depend on what you're trying to do before the error occurred.

That's it! Give this a try and let me know how it goes in the comment section below. I'm only a few clicks away should you need further assistance. Cheers!

"I have a PhD in computer science so I may just know what I am talking about."

Then here's the Developer's Forum:

https://help.developer.intuit.com/s/

I've been using and supporting QB since V3, so I know a little about it.  You might want to know that QB is built on Sybase. I have a programming background and used SyBase and QB before Intuit moved to the SyBase engine for QB 2007, released in 2006 (if we need to share professional experience details to frame the discussion). Then, there was a reprogramming in QB 2013 and the last year you could allow the program to Host the file, even if you didn't mind the Floating Host errors, was QB 2014. From QB 2015 forward, the file needs to be Managed.

"What doesn't work is the backup process."

I make a backup after every work session; then that is Copied to Dropbox. It's that easy. Make sure to use the setting for Full Verification.

"It is clear that Intuit have built in some kind of protection that prevents this scenario. The only motivation is  that they offer their own (paid) hosted service that they want to force their customer to use."

OMG, please drop the conspiracy. You seem to be having a Systems problem. As a peer user that also consults, we Resolve our computer system problems. There is no "protection" preventing this. You have some sort of Issue to Resolve. Many of us make backups All Day just Fine.

"You are correct that QB apparently does not work on a cloud drive, but not for the reasons you give. It doesn't work because Intuit deliberately prevent it from working"

You really intend to Debate not only peer users, but the Intuit people that are here and trying to help you, and all you see is Conspiracy. That's a bit rude on the community forum hosted by Intuit, where you could actually get Help on this issue that seems to be something to do with what you are Trying. There is no Conspiracy and you are not being prevented from protecting your own data. I make a backup after every work session and every file I work in, and I have used them to Recover From in the case of damage or changing computers.

"No, you're wrong."

Yeah, sure we are.  Uh, no: We're not wrong with how to use it. We also are not responsible for Why it is programmed how it is programmed.  We could have helped with your Backup Issue. And you could have been a nice addition to the peer user community, given your knowledge. But, it might be time to go elsewhere if you simply want to bring up conspiracy theories. The rest of us are trying to run businesses and help each other and learn from each other.

This: "I get an error (-6000 -83 from memory) when saving the backup to the desktop. No method I can find works."

-6XXX errors are related to the Windows Username access rights.

This: "If it is relevant, I am running Quickbooks in a Windows 10 virtual machine."

Is the Most Relevant thing you have stated all this time. You have a Windows Rights issue, and Windows 10 manages user rights differently. Make sure to Install QB "for all users" and "run as Admin."

@FritzF: that article is extremely long and convoluted. It is ridiculous that an ordinary QB user has to go through such a process in order to use your software.

I have a suggestion for the development team: produce a product that works. Do not offload quality control and bugfixing to your customers.

And a second suggestion for Intuit management: instead of screwing your customers out of as much money as possible, invest in a decent development team.

@qbteachmt

"Yeah, sure we are.  Uh, no: We're not wrong with how to use it. We also are not responsible for Why it is programmed how it is programmed.  We could have helped with your Backup Issue. And you could have been a nice addition to the peer user community, given your knowledge. But, it might be time to go elsewhere if you simply want to bring up conspiracy theories. The rest of us are trying to run businesses and help each other and learn from each other."

You may not be wrong with how you use it since you've spent your life figuring out how to navigate around Intuit's garbage programming. But the rest of us don't have that luxury and I certainly don't expect to have to go through contortions in order to use software that I pay good money for and that is backed by a highly profitable company whose mission is to extract maximal rent from their long-suffering customers. And you were 100% wrong in your explanation of why QB on cloud doesn't work. And yes, I know it has Sybase embedded.

"You have a Windows Rights issue, and Windows 10 manages user rights differently. Make sure to Install QB "for all users" and "run as Admin."

Another one of those hidden gotchas that I would have known had I spent a month reading QB support forums before attempting to use the product? I will give it a try, thankyou.

A VC once told me: the most investable software companies are those most loathed by their customers. It means the product is so sticky that once you start using it, you can't leave even if it is horribly buggy and even if the company exploits its customers terribly. The archetypal example he used was Oracle, but I think Intuit give them a run for their money.

@qbteachmt

"Make sure to Install QB "for all users" and "run as Admin."

I ran as admin (I am not game to reinstall QB for all users at this point because I cannot create a functional backup file). It still does not work.

I am going to try opening the file with a fresh QB install on a non-VM windows machine to see if that changes anything. At this point I have spent over a day trying to fix this garbage software. Intuit laughing all the way to the bank while their customers tear their hair out.

Hello there, @IH8QuikB.

We appreciate you reaching out and providing feedback. 

This is not the experience we want for our customers. I’ve already informed our engineers that you want to save and restore your backup to the desktop with no hassle.

I want you to know that your voice matters and I'm submitting feedback on your behalf. Feedback is sent to the Management Team to determine what we need to implement moving forward to provide the best QuickBooks experience and ensure this doesn't happen again.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you in the meantime. I want to make sure you're taken care of. 

@HoneyLynn_G

Thanks for chasing this up. But the issue is not that I want to save a backup copy to my desktop, It's that I can't open any QB backups at all. The original company file was created on OneDrive, and several backups were also created (automatically by QB) on OneDrive. However, when I came to restore one of those backups today, it failed, whether I restored to OneDrive or to a local drive. This is QuickBooks Pro 2019.

None of the backups work. Creating a local backup and then restoring from that also doesn't work. The only thing that works is editing the original company file, which puts me in a very precarious position with no backup ability at all, and no way to get out of that within my current setup.

I am running QB on a windows 10 VM running in Virtual Box. I am going to attempt to restore my company file from OneDrive on a non-VM windows machine to see if it is the VM that is causing the issue.

It doesn't work in a non-VM windows install either.

Restoring a backup from both the OneDrive and local drive is a good place to start, IH8QuikB. This helps us isolate the behavior to know where the issue is coming from.

Since the backup won't restore after trying out both ways, then the backup file is probably damaged or corrupted. With that being said, it would be best to contact our Technical Support Team. We'll help you fix the file so you can restore the backup successfully.

Here's how to get our contact number:

1. Go to this link https://help.quickbooks.intuit.com/en_US/contact.
2. Select QuickBooks Desktop, and then choose your version.
3. Click the Solving Issues & Error Messages topic.
4. Select the File & Network Management sub topic.
5. Scroll down and click the Get Phone Number button.

Don't hesitate to let me know if you need anything else.

@SophiaAnnL

I have succeeded in restoring my company file (qbw) on a local drive by first generating a portable company file (qbm) from within quickbooks. I have verified that a backup (qbb) generated from the company file  (qbw) and stored on OneDrive can indeed be recovered, so I am no longer blocked. I can recover the backup version manually so I will proceed from here.

I have recorded the steps that led to the current situation. I do not want to waste anymore time on this. I suggest you pass this on to Intuit's development team.

All software is running in a Windows 10 VM running inside VirtualBox on Ubuntu 18.04. All local files are "local" to the VM (i.e are not located in the host linux filesystem).  TT=turbotax. QB = quickbooks.

1. Begin company return in TT business 2018.
2. Attempt to import QB data (as I have done every year since 2012).
3. Receive notification that TT 2018 is only compatible with QB files generated by versions 2013 onwards.
4. Install QB 2019 Pro (forced upgrade by Intuit but not unreasonable given 7 years of use from QB 2012 Pro).
5. Run QB 2019.
6. Forced enrollment in data protection not required in QB 2012. I suspect this is the ultimate source of the problem.
7. Convert QB 2012 company file to QB 2019 selecting OneDrive folder as destination for the converted file.
8. Setup backup schedule to separate folder on OneDrive.
9. Verify backup schedule is generating backups, but do not verify that any of the backups actually work (first mistake - believing intuit).
10. In several sessions work on finalizing 2018 accounts in QB 2019 using company file stored on OneDrive.
11. Make mental note that QB 2019 is opening each time from a qbb file on OneDrive, not from a qbw file. Briefly look for qbw file on OneDrive and in local (VM) filesystem but unable to locate. Assume that QB 2019 works differently and qbw file is now no longer stored in an obvious location (second mistake - believing intuit again).
12. Realize several months of transactions had been associated with the wrong account, and attempt to open one of the backups from the OneDrive using the "restore from backup" functionality within QB 2019.
13. Restore from backup fails with error code -6000 -83.
14. Try all relevant fixes listed for error code -6000 -83. None work.
15. Specifically, none of the following worked: run QB as admin. Attempt to restore to a local (VM) drive. Copy remote (OneDrive) backup qbb file to local drive and restore from there. Reinstall QB 2019 on a non-VM (bare metal) windows machine, copy remote qbb backup file to non-VM windows, restore from there. Attempt restore on non-VM machine from OneDrive. Repeat all of the above with the original qbb file (not the backups - recall that there never was an original qbw file).
16. Attempt to generate a workable backup by backing up to a local drive. All permutations (VM, non-VM) generate backups that themselves fail to restore.
17. Realize my QB 2019 has always been in a state in which it is impossible to generate any workable backup, and that it is impossible to get a working local copy of my company file. Therefore I can no longer continue entering data.
18. Vent on QB forums.
19. Receive wrong explanation and lectures from @qbteachmt
20. Had an idea (based on the suspicion alluded to in 6. above that the new rights management is somehow breaking things): perhaps creating a portable company file (qbm) copy will work.
21. Create qbm copy. Restore from qbm copy to local drive. Eureka!

I will swallow the time recoding the incorrect transactions  rather than attempting (likely in vain) to enlist Intuit's support in restoring backups. I am not going to waste any more time on this. The fact that the qbb -> qbm path works whereas restoring from qbb (or generating a local backup) does not indicates that it is very likely a rights issue associated with programming errors on Intuit's side, not data corruption. It is appalling that Intuit treats its customers' data and time in such a cavalier manner.

Gee, let me hep from 19, because I don't deserve that comment.

4. Intuit has a 3-year lifecycle for QB and has had this for nearly 20 years. So, QB 2012 was never meant to run on W10 in any environment, real or simulated. And your data file is 7 years behind current for purposes of any integrated import, including TT.

6. No, you never had to sign in for that. If you bought QB 2019 under the Plus Subscription, it is included for your additional fee.

9. First mistake: not confirming your own system and settings are working, because we now know your system has some Authorization conflicts, which is why you get that -6XXX error.

11. The program works with the .qbw file, not updating a QBB which is a compressed backup file. However, I have seen filenames where the ".qbb" got left in the string.

13 and 14. Putting files Local to the program, works best. Keeping backups on a cloud storage is nice, for when your entire office burns down, of course. I have come to work and the office was surrounded by firetrucks with the roof smoking.

17. I have Mac user clients running QB PC on their Macs using VM Ware and Parallels. It's harder to help with systems we don't know, over the internet, and especially Linux/Ubuntu is not really supported for QB desktop; it has an installable hosting app for being a file server for QB.

20. Yes, that is the First Thing I told you. But not until you finally revealed your computer system environment.

21. Glad to Help.

I sure hope others learn from you. Not just your saga, and your Conspiracy theories, but the Actual Help you posted on this peer user forum just might help the next peer user. And there never is any reason to be Rude to anyone trying to be helpful.

@IH8QuikB

By the way, if you would really like to provide input, I can refer you to testing; we are in Alpha right now, so this is a good time to submit for it, and get into Beta from the earliest stages. All you would need to do is be willing to be helpful by providing good input, even if things don't work well. That's part of being a tester, tolerating when things don't work well, being willing to describe all the details that might be pertinent, and being cooperative. You also would need to provide contact info in your profile here, to be able to be submitted as my "refer someone," of  course.

I'm still confused. Have you been responding to me with all of your wild comments or someone else? You were acting as though I was questioning your intelligence and you referred to me as having a background in computer science, which I do not. I do not feel comfortable giving you any personal information from all of the comments that you have been posting.

@meyerjamesk

When you first added your own question to this topic that was running from Mid-2017, you were one of a Lot of people on the internet community that participated in this topic you did not actually start. That is how a Peer Community works.

The Most recent person who posted here and in a bunch of other topics regarding their access rights problem for QB desktop file management is @IH8QuikB and that is why I directed my response to that person.

No one is asking anyone to post anything personal; you should always play safely on the internet.

@qbteachmt

"20. Yes, that is the First Thing I told you. But not until you finally revealed your computer system environment.

21. Glad to Help."

Eh, no @qbteachmt. You promulgated some cockamamie theory about QB's internal operation that had nothing to do with the issue, and then lectured me when I pointed that out.

"I sure hope others learn from you. Not just your saga, and your Conspiracy theories, but the Actual Help you posted on this peer user forum just might help the next peer user. And there never is any reason to be Rude to anyone trying to be helpful."

Your "help" seems to consist almost exclusively of defending the indefensible from Intuit and blaming their victims. You really should understand that Intuit has near-monopoly lock-in with quickbooks and behaves accordingly towards its customers.

I now see that you make a habit of lecturing people on the QB forums. You're not exactly a great ambassador for Intuit.

For example:

"Can I delete old reminders from 10-12 years ago.."

My answer to this would have been: "I know of no other way than going through each item and unchecking the control that generates the reminder. Eg uncheck all "print later" reminders on checks. It's a PITA."

But you had a lot more "help" to offer the poor questioner:

"The Reminders List is Status. Things showing as Unpaid from 10 years ago are still unpaid or would have removed themselves from this listing.

Everything you see "Waiting to Print" still exists and is Waiting to Print and loaded up in your Print Queue. Double-click that to see it; or go to File menu > Print Forms. Select, for instance, Checks to Print. No one Ever Printed these? They marked them To Print. Should they have put a check # on them, instead? Or, EFT or DEBIT, to show it was not Paper Check at all?

This is Housekeeping. You don't "hide it" or "turn it off." Do you watch TV? This is sort of like the show Hoarders: you just opened the front door and found a Mess that needs to be cleaned up."

Gee, thanks for the scolding. Now, how do I turn off reminders again?

There are many others. You're everywhere with your opinionated little missives.

@IH8QuikB

It was a pretty basic offer: you can Participate with those of us as testers, or not. Your attempt to autopsy of years of forum input, when you are one of the participants of "Gee, I just realized that I really didn't give you all the info that might help" or now, you seem to be unsympathetic to those who ask here and are still learning what functions are called, for how to describe that what they see and is the issue they want help with, seems to indicate that you are stating, "No, I don't want to help." This is what I learned from Teaching: no matter how frustrated someone is, they still want help, and if you cannot try to help, then at least you should not complain to others. Everyone has the ability to learn and everyone who asks for help is entitled to that help. And you got helped, so it isn't clear why you need to denigrate others that are part of this community. I cannot imagine you are this rude or intolerant in real life, given your chosen profession. Things often don't go well in IT. You, of all people, should know better.

And that's fine.

From what I am understanding, they're saying you can't use it in multi-user mode but if you and your accountant log in at different times, you're all good.

So what's the reason as to why you can't use OneDrive? I use it and don't seem to have any problems

I usually enjoy popcorn with drama.

I am setting up QuickBooks for the first time, and I am going to approach this from a simplified Business Continuity, Disaster Recovery, and Software Architecture perspective by asking the following questions:

1. What are the consequences to my business from disruption if I am unable to do bookkeeping or I have a full or partial data loss?   
2. What are potential loss scenarios, i.e., crashed hard drive, PC meltdown, fire, flood, tornado, hurricane, long term power outage, or phone wires cut by construction equipment?
3. How soon do I need to restore my ability to do the books if I lose my PC or hard drive that hosts the DB?  The measurement is called the Recovery Time Objective (RTO).
4. How much data am I willing to lose if my hard drive that hosts the DB crashes?  The measurement is called the Recovery Point Objective (RPO).
5. Is my datafile small enough, and my Internet connection large enough, to handle frequent syncing to the cloud? The measurement is called available bandwidth.
6. How much money am I willing to spend to assure recovery?
7. Do I expect to have more than a single user or multiple geographic user locations?

Losing access to my account tool for 24 hours or losing more than an hour of data I have entered is a business impact of CRITICAL.  My answers reflect an RTO of 24 hours and  RPO of 1 hour, meaning that if I lose my PC or hard drive, it is acceptable to have a 24-hour outage with the possibility of losing up to an hour of data.  Additionally, I will have three users from a single home location. If my Internet syncing impacts others in the house, I can do the books later, or they can stream their movie at a later time. 

Intuit describes cloud backup as an appropriate solution within a business continuity strategy here: https://quickbooks.intuit.com/r/hr-and-management/create-emergency-preparation-checklist-business/ and here: https://security.intuit.com/index.php/protect-your-computer/back-up-your-files and here: https://security.intuit.com/index.php/home/blog/760-don-t-forget-to-back-up-your-data-on-world-backu....  

 Given this business impact analysis and available solutions, I need a recovery strategy that is within my budget and my tolerance for downtime and data loss.  Here are my options:

1. Use QuickBooks Online for $10-$20 per month for one user or $20-$40 per month for three users. I hope and pray that the Intuit RPO and RTO support my needs.  I have not been able to find an uptime status for these services, like many other cloud providers share, ex: https://status.docusign.com/.
2. Use QuickBooks Pro Desktop menu item to setup / activate online backup $9.95 per month or $99.95 per year.
3. Manually backup files with QuickBooks Pro Desktop by choosing menu item Backup Company, then Create Local Backup, and select a OneDrive folder. Manual backup creates the risk that if you forget to backup, you will lose all of the data since the last backup in the event of a disaster.
4. Sync to the default Intuit folder on the local hard drive to OneDrive. Sync setup is only necessary on the PC that hosts the Database Manager.  Sync backup creates the risk that if your sync is failing for some reason without your knowledge, you will lose all of the data since the last successful sync in the event of a disaster.

I have decided that the best decision for me personally is to use QuickBooks Pro Desktop with the OneDrive sync option.  I have multiple users in a single location, and so I will run the QuickBooks Database Server Manager on a desktop configured for multi-user.   I will connect to this database with a laptop occasionally. 

My OneDrive is part of my Office 365 OneDrive for Busines Plan 1, which is $5/month (today) and provides 1 TB of OneDrive storage and supports files up to 15 GB in size.   I don’t expect my database to be larger than 15GB.

To connect my local QuickBooks default folder to sync with OneDrive, I execute the following at the Windows command prompt: 

mklink /j "%UserProfile%\OneDrive\Intuit" "C:\Users\Public\Documents\Intuit"

I can now use Windows Explorer to see a folder called Inuit in my OneDrive folder that has an arrow in the bottom left showing this is a link to another folder.  If I check OneDrive, it shows all of the files synced except two that were in use: 1) CompanyName.qbw.TLG and CompanyName.qbw.  Once I close QuickBooks Desktop Pro, I see those files were stored to OneDrive as well.  Please note, until all files have synced, your data is not reliably backed up to the cloud.  If you have a 1 hour RPO, as described above, you will need to close QuickBooks Pro Desktop each hour to ensure backup to the cloud. 

I discussed four options above that have different recovery characteristics, where the final option was to use OneDrive.  Recovery using the first option of Online is out of the scope of this article. The last three options require that someone regularly verify that the files are backed up.  I like to use recurring calendar reminders for this.  The last three options also require a regular recovery test.  You should assign a person(s) to do this, and provide the written steps to recover and test these steps regularly to make sure that your recovery plan works.  For example, using option 4, you could:

• On the Original PC with Database Manager:
  • Copy the OneDrive folder named Intuit to a USB stick and another location that you can restore from if your test corrupted your database
  • If you are performing a real recovery, copy this folder to at least one other location before you do anything else
  • Close QuickBooks Pro Desktop
• On the Recovery PC :
• Install QuickBooks Pro Desktop with the database manager
• Close QuickBooks Pro Desktop
• DO NOT SETUP ONEDRIVE AND SYNC ON THE RECOVERY PC if you are only testing recovery. If you are performing a recovery, then you need to set this up, but only after making multiple copies of your OneDrive Intuit folder.
• Rename or Delete the C:\Users\Public\Documents\Intuit folder on your recovery PC and replace with the Intuit folder on the USB stick in the first step.
• Start QuickBooks and make sure that all of your data and configurations are still active. If there is a problem, Intuit support should have multiple scenarios to help since we didn’t just backup the database, but we also backed up the data needed for Auto Data Recovery.

Finally, if your building burns down, where are you going to get the written recovery steps and the software.  My software is in Amazon Downloads, OneDrive stores my recovery steps, and my sometimes defective brain stores my OneDrive password.

I hope this helps prevent the enormous heartbreak of not being prepared to continue accounting operations in the event of a disaster.

Jeff Mikkelson (CISA, CISSP, TOGAF, PMP, CEH, MCSE, MCSD, MCT)

https://linkedin.com/in/jeffmikkelsonmn/

Most encouraging & positive comment read thus far after a long time, which points to a direction. One question though, Can there be a second person accessing the same data file through a laptop, who has access to the OneDrive shared directory, just incase. In today's age we're all multi-tasking.

TIA